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11.50 or better w/o rollcage?

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budoboy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 Oct 2009 at 10:39am
I ran 11.71 last Wednesday and just got a significantly higher stall converter which will be installed this week.  I'm going to be very close to 11.50 with some practice but don't have a roll cage.
 
How do you guys recommend I handle this at the track?  I know I can be kicked out running faster that 11.50 w/o a cage.  Do I let someone know at the track that it may happen? 


Edited by budoboy - 31 Oct 2009 at 10:41am
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PsychoSy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PsychoSy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2009 at 11:03am
First wait until it actually happens. Then see what happens. My bet is they'll come over and have a little chat reminding you of the rules and tell you to come back with a bar. Or keep it slower which it sounds like you don't want to do. I doubt they will "kick you out" with the first run under 11.5, they're much nicer that that. Just be prepared to tell them you're gonna get a bar. Hmmm, I wonder who else is reading this? Smile
Remember' 500 miles is a drive, 1/4 mile is a race!

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Keith Richards View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keith Richards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2009 at 12:38pm
Congrats on the improved performance!
Sounds like you should go see Marc at MP Motorsports too put a bar in.
Your chassis will like it too.
Come over to the JP lanes and I will show you on my road runner what happens too a car that needs bars that don't have them.

Keith
(the un-official MP outside sales rep.) lol
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budoboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budoboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2009 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Keith Richards Keith Richards wrote:

Come over to the JP lanes and I will show you on my road runner what happens too a car that needs bars that don't have them.

Keith
(the un-official MP outside sales rep.) lol
OUCH!
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Peanut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peanut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2009 at 9:43am
keep this in mind, as I have seen it once or twice before;
the added weight of the roll bar can often be enough to push the car right back out of the 11.50's thus making the installation unnecessary by RULES standards.

But, that said...I am all for safety...and the structural rigidity(chassis strengthening) will save wear and tear on the drivetrain, improve performance, and increase safety.

if you go 11.48 you will be warned. If you do it again, you will be invited to leave.

If you think you will eclipse the 11.50 ET, then either bring so ballast(weight) or stage deep. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rancheroracer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2009 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Peanut Peanut wrote:

keep this in mind, as I have seen it once or twice before;
the added weight of the roll bar can often be enough to push the car right back out of the 11.50's thus making the installation unnecessary by RULES standards.
 
Or you may find like I did with the Ranchero several years ago, the car's 60' times increased and it actually picked up some et.
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil. 4:13
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Jim McCombe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim McCombe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2009 at 12:43pm
A roll bar isn't really a bad idea if you think in the safety terms.
Once you have exceeded the 11.50 limit, you are now under the watchful eye of the starting line crew as well as the personal manning the clocks who have direct communications with the starting line crew.
I believe last night you received your warning when you dipped into the 11.40 zone which is quite remarkabl;e for a street driven car.
Contact Carl Hagan at Carl's Custom Fabrication in Napa should you decide to go the roll bar route.
There are many street driven cars with roll bars, many of which are just for appearance purposes but such would not be in your case.
Besides a roll bar, you will now need to get a SFI approved drivers jacket in order to be legal for sub 11.50 runs.
Have fun but be safe in the process.
Years ago, I had the same problem with my Max Wedge 64 Plymouth when the required roll bar rule was implemented at 11.99 and quicker so I know where you are coming from.
The roll bar actually helped not to mention the peace of mind it gave me and never regretted putting it in.   
If it feels like it's going side ways... IT IS!
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budoboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budoboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2009 at 6:01pm
Thanks Jim.  I have to determine if I'm fast enough to want a permanent roll cage.   I can just put my seats back in and probably be above 11.50
 
Is a 5 or 6 point restraint required below 11.50?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rancheroracer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2009 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by budoboy Is a 5 or 6 point restraint required below 11.50?[/QUOTE budoboy Is a 5 or 6 point restraint required below 11.50?[/QUOTE wrote:

 
  Yes
 
  Yes
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil. 4:13
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Jim McCombe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim McCombe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2009 at 9:32pm


You can get by just fine with a basic 5 point roll bar that has the drivers side side bar included. If you happen to go that way, I suggest you get a swing out type bar that will allow you much easier access getting both in and out of the car.

Edited by Jim McCombe - 05 Nov 2009 at 9:35pm
If it feels like it's going side ways... IT IS!
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Peanut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peanut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2009 at 12:03pm
I just want you to think about something for a few seconds;
The roll bar rule is there for your safety. However, that said, one often questions why the ET cut off?

think about this-if you run 11.59, you do not need a roll bar per the rules. But if you run 11.49, you do.
we're talking 1/10th of a second...do you really think that in the case of a roll-over in a 11.49 pass, you'll be glad you had one, but in a roll-over in a 11.59 pass, you wouldn't need one?

NHRA and other sanctioning bodies as well as certain race tracks, have safety rules. They have to have a starting point. it used to be 11.99, as Jim said...but many of today's production cars can easily run in the high 11's, and the owner's simply will not install a roll bar/modify the car. NHRA recently changed the rule to 11.49 and quicker. That means a 2006 S65 AMG Mercedes Benz which can easily run sub 11.90 passes, does not require a roll bar.

My advice...if you are walking on the fine line that separates you from falling in to a catagory that requires improved safety equipment....just BUY IT. I assure you...if you need a roll bar at 11.40's...you need one just as bad at 11.50's

Just because NHRA doesn't say you have to have one, doesn't mean you dont need one.

roll bar
5 point harness(belts)
SFI approved fire jacket
helmet

...all there to keep you safe. remember...it isn't always your car that can have a problem...it's often the car in the other lane. I've seen it too many times.

stay safe
play safe
race safe
return to race another day.

and hell yea, nice job running low 11's in a street car!
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budoboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budoboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2009 at 4:28pm
Thanks for the advice
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PsychoSy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PsychoSy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2009 at 7:33pm
Lotta truth there. I've had the pickup down to 11.6 @ 116. Feels neat. Since the truck is a semi collectors item I've chosen to back off a bit. Don't want to hack it up to install a bar. However for the last Wed I might see just what it'll do. Little extra 100, little extra boost, little extra timing, hmmm.... Nuke

News at 11:00.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RacerX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2009 at 3:21am
A Rev-limiter and a full tank would be my way.
"What's behind me, is not important!" Gumball Rally
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mongo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by RacerX RacerX wrote:

A Rev-limiter and a full tank would be my way.
 
Rev-limiter is an interesting thought how would you use that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peanut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 9:31am
a "stutter box" used at the top end is not permitted in many classes, FWIW.

some newer cars have MPH limiters programmed in to the PCM's...they can be custom-tuned via the PCM programming to limit the top speed which can thus affect the ET of the vehicle.
This is done on modern day cars for various reasons-one is drive shaft critical speed.

as far as a rev limiter, you can install a MSD two-step or RPM limiter for various reasons. Lets say your car shifts at 6000 rpms, and goes through the traps at 6300. If you had a 6100 rpm rev limiter installed, the car would then limit the engine's rpms so that they do not excede 6100, therfore slowing the top speed down.

however...top speed limiters and rev limiters used at the top of the rpm band are not safe for many ignition systems/engines. Bouncing off the limiter at the top end of the track for a couple seconds isn't real engine/driveline friendly. An over-rev at shift point is one thing...but leaning on the limiter to slow your car down...that's Playstation racing.




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budoboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budoboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 11:09am
I got booted last Wednesday night after lifting at the 1000' and still hitting 11.497 - DAMN!!  First run was 11.507
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RacerX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 6:43pm
Limit the first to second gear, and or second to direct, or if a stick, shift the damn thing earlier!
    You figured out how to make it go, so make it slower. This is simple to fix with good brakes and a light touch.
     Or you could get the roll cage, loose the street cheaters and run 10's with a bigger cam and race slicks. Evil%20Smile Come on you know you really want to run jackpot.
"What's behind me, is not important!" Gumball Rally
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 4:05pm
Good reason to have roll bar...

I watched this this weekend...



It's all right letting yourself go, as long as you can get yourself back. - Mick Jagger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim McCombe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 4:12pm
That is my old friend Lou Gasparelli's Alcohol Funny Car with son Steve driving.
Glad to see that Steve didn't get too banged up and that the 2009 Infineon Lucas Oil champ will be returning soon
If it feels like it's going side ways... IT IS!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peanut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 4:14pm
#21 has some SERIOUS job commitment issues.







Edited by Peanut - 17 Nov 2009 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PsychoSy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 4:15pm
They showed that on TV. Car ended up upside down under the body. Driver walked away. Amazing to watch.
Remember' 500 miles is a drive, 1/4 mile is a race!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim McCombe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 4:17pm
All I can say is that the photographer in that photo has no sense of fear or places no value on his life.   
If it feels like it's going side ways... IT IS!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 6:40pm
Mickey Ferro is lucky he had a good start...

Watched it, and it all happened sooo fast...

PS...Alcohol Funny Car is the best class to watch...
It's all right letting yourself go, as long as you can get yourself back. - Mick Jagger
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